Key Takeaways:
- Inclusive Design from the Start: David emphasized that incorporating accessibility into the design process from the beginning is more efficient and cost-effective than retrofitting it later. Building with accessibility in mind not only benefits users with disabilities but enhances the usability of the product for all users.
- Accessibility as Good Business: Dame pointed out that designing for accessibility is not just about compliance; it's a strategic business move. By creating accessible products, companies can tap into a market of over 1 billion people globally with disabilities and also future-proof their products for users who may experience disabilities later in life.
- Career Advancement for People with Disabilities: While remote work has opened more opportunities for people with disabilities, Dame stressed that companies often stop at hiring and do not provide adequate career growth opportunities. True inclusivity requires investing in the development and promotion of employees with disabilities, ensuring they have access to leadership roles and career progression.
Today I’m talking to David Dame, who's a senior director of accessibility at Microsoft. And we're here to talk about National Disability Employment Awareness Month. That's the topic of all these conversations we're having. And specifically, we're gonna be talking about product management and the role of prioritization in making impact for folks with disabilities.
David, you have a long history in product management. Talk a little bit about what you're up to now and how you got to this point.
People often assume I've always worked in accessibility because I have cerebral palsy and use a power wheelchair, but I actually got into the field just 3.5 years ago. Before that, I led product launches and large organizations. During the pandemic, I reflected on what I wanted to accomplish and realized there weren't people like me in leadership roles. I joined Microsoft to help build technology and tools that would enable others like me to be at those leadership tables. Although I didn’t have formal training in accessibility, my lived experience and product expertise drove me to change how people think about product accessibility.
When you started your career in accessibility, what were the challenges you faced?
Before getting into accessibility, I didn’t prioritize it as much as I should have, despite using a power wheelchair. I often thought we could address accessibility later, not realizing its importance. Looking back, I wish I had understood that designing for people with disabilities improves usability for everyone. People without disabilities can often compensate for poor user experiences, but those with disabilities hit friction points that stop them. By addressing these issues products become more usable for all users. This was a valuable lesson that now informs my approach to product management in the accessibility space.
That’s such a key insight, because as people who strive to build great products, a lot of what building great products is about is identifying problems. But there’s a big missed opportunity for a lot of product managers to connect with those in the disabled community.
I learned the significance of accessibility at Microsoft, where I discovered that 1 billion people globally identify as having a disability. This market is as vital as any other, but often overlooked. Building products with accessibility in mind opens the potential to reach these users. For B2B, it helps employees use your product, and for B2C, it ensures consumer growth. Additionally, designing for accessibility today prepares businesses for their future users, as we all may experience disability eventually. This shift in thinking greatly changed how I view product development.
That's such a strong way of putting it for a young PM who wants to work in this space, but is having trouble articulating the long term value.
Instead of postponing accessibility to a future version, it's more cost-effective to include inclusive design from the start. This future-proofs your product, ensuring it works for users who may lose abilities over time. For B2B products, providing accessibility tools helps retain experienced employees, preserving their intellectual knowledge. Additionally, remote work has opened up more opportunities for people with disabilities, addressing the talent shortage by tapping into previously overlooked talent pools. This shift brings diverse perspectives, improving product design and business innovation.
What role did the pandemic and remote work play in accelerating the hiring of people who have disabilities?
The pandemic, while tragic, offered a unique learning experience for many people who had never faced the limitations that individuals with disabilities encounter daily. It forced reliance on digital services for basic needs, fostering empathy for the challenges of restricted mobility. However, the return to pre-pandemic norms, like Amazon's return-to-office policy, suggests that many have forgotten those lessons.
While remote work opportunities have increased, career growth for people with disabilities remains a challenge. Many companies stop at hiring disabled individuals without providing the sponsorship and promotion needed for career advancement. True inclusivity requires investing in their growth and leadership opportunities, not just hiring them.
I would echo that. Good managers understand there are opportunities to grow and help people with their career progression regardless of disabilities.
In 1995, I got my first job after graduating in computer science, but faced challenges due to the manual nature of paperwork. It took me 12 hours to complete tasks my colleagues did in 8. When I got a computer, I streamlined my work by creating a website where people could sign up for training, cutting my task time from 12 hours to 3. This innovation, driven by my need for efficiency, benefited the entire organization.
Despite this, I didn’t initially feel confident asking for accommodations, like an accessible bathroom, which led me to hold it for 12 hours every day until I finally made the request. And at the end of the day, dry pants shouldn’t be a novelty, it should be what’s expected.
But this underscores a point I always make - that the hard reality is, a person with a disability has to do two jobs, one of which they don’t get paid for…the job they are hired for, and the other to teach the organization what they need to do to support this talent.
Hopefully the work that’s being done today will inspire the next generation and remove some of the challenges folks with disabilities still face.
In leadership circles, I'm often the first person with a disability that they meet at their level. While they may know someone with a disability in their personal lives or workplace, it's different when they see someone like me at the leadership table. It helps them realize how much we have in common and why accessibility is important in product design. People often tell me they're inspired by my work, but I remind them that, like everyone else, I have bills to pay and dreams to pursue. It’s about normalizing disability in leadership roles, not being seen as extraordinary.
Jumping back into your role at Microsoft, how do you ensure that ideas around accessibility are incorporated into early stages of product development? And what challenges do you face doing that?
When I joined Microsoft, accessibility was seen as an afterthought, something handled by operations. I helped shift our team into the design group, allowing us to focus on accessibility from the start, before product scope was locked. Initially, accessibility was viewed as a compliance or brand equity issue, but I pushed to show that it’s also good business. For example, accessible products can open up new markets, as people with disabilities are valuable customers too.
By thinking of accessibility as a core product feature rather than an add-on, we ensured it became a sustainable part of the business, integrated into the roadmap and properly supported. I also learned that there’s a difference between supporting accessibility and truly investing in it. I began using data and financial impact to convince stakeholders of the importance of investing in accessible products, shifting the mindset from compliance to creating accessible solutions that drive profitability.
For someone who is in a position similar to yours that might be struggling to get the resources they need, what advice would you have for them?
To build accessible products, start by truly understanding disabilities—they are your target market and opportunity. Engage with the community and learn about both visible and invisible disabilities to identify mismatches with your product. It’s not about making everything accessible immediately, but prioritizing the key areas that matter most. Each iteration can address different accessibility needs, starting with mobility, voice integration, or reducing keystrokes. The goal is to build features into the product from the beginning, not as an afterthought. Take an iterative approach and focus on making significant impacts with each update, rather than trying to solve everything at once.
What are some common misconceptions and how do we work to shift them?
To influence stakeholders, it's essential to make disability real for them by introducing them to actual users with disabilities. Many people have a biased image of what a typical user looks like, often imagining someone like themselves. By involving real users in workshops and demonstrating the challenges they face when using products, you can help stakeholders understand the customer base better. This shifts their perspective from seeing accessibility as an afterthought to realizing its importance in solving real problems. Understanding the true needs of users with disabilities ensures that the product not only meets standards but also delivers a great user experience.
That's a common theme in these interviews: that the strongest way to change how someone thinks is to have them see an actual end user experiencing the pain of using your product. It creates immediate empathy.
Exactly. Get inside the walls right? That's what we're always told. Get outside your building and see how they're using it in the workplace, or whatever domain your products, and just watch their music.
What are some “Aha!” moments that you've had in shipping product and seeing value getting outside the walls.
Agile brought a valuable shift in thinking. Before, product managers believed they could learn everything upfront and that nothing would change, but Agile’s iterative approach revealed the flaws in that mindset. It emphasized building products in a way that allows continuous learning and adjustment. While having a plan is essential, the process of updating and refining it is even more crucial. A significant realization is that great product managers know when to pivot, abandon features, or change direction based on market feedback. This isn’t a failure but an opportunity to move forward toward more relevant solutions.
You’ve worked as a product leader for a long time. What do you look for in a PM?
When hiring a product manager (PM), I assume they have the necessary skills and knowledge, but I prioritize qualities like scrappiness, curiosity, and resilience. PMs must be adaptable, able to navigate processes that may not always work as expected, and find ways to move projects forward. I also value the confidence to say no, especially when balancing stakeholder expectations. It’s important for PMs to explain why they say no, reaffirming their focus while staying open to rethinking decisions if new insights emerge. It’s a delicate balance between commitment and flexibility.
Well said. Often times as a PM it’s much more important what you're not doing.
You can fall into that trap and say, “Oh yeah I’ll put that at the bottom of the backlog.” In Canada that’s the nice way of saying you’re never going to get it. But if I was honest upfront, and I keep the backlog as lean as possible, that’s how teams get more done.
How do you frame accessibility not just from a legal compliance standpoint, but as a profit motivator?
Fear tactics can be a great hammer if you need it, because there’s a lot of us who are too cute and defenseless to go to jail for not fulfilling an accessibility compliance check.
Compliance is just the starting point for accessibility, not the ultimate goal. While meeting standards is important, it's not enough to create a product that people love to use. The true success comes when users find the product intuitive and enjoyable, integrating it into their daily lives. Compliance can be useful to draw attention, but it shouldn't be the only focus. Many companies meet the minimum standards and assume that's enough, but customers expect more—especially when usability issues are treated as critical bugs, while accessibility problems are often delayed for future updates. Prioritizing accessibility from the start will not only attract more users but also build loyalty among those with disabilities, who represent a significant and growing market.
Have you succeeded in helping shift that framing?
I would say yes and no. There's something called "accessibility burnout" in the community, which feels like Groundhog Day—year after year, you need to re-teach the same things because of staff turnover and new people joining. Accessibility in product development is still relatively new, and while we’re making progress in discussions and business awareness, the education piece is ongoing. The real shift happens when others outside the accessibility team start thinking about it independently, as I've seen when colleagues reference accessibility considerations without me being in the room. That’s when true scaling happens—when accessibility becomes everyone's responsibility, not just one team's.
As a product leader, how do you think about the opportunities around AI and accessibility?
AI, much like the invention of copy-paste, has the potential to revolutionize accessibility. For tasks like responding to emails, tools like Microsoft’s Co-Pilot can drastically reduce the time it takes to draft messages by generating them based on commands. This saves time by allowing quick edits rather than writing from scratch, improving efficiency. For people with disabilities, AI can help by handling tedious, high-effort tasks, freeing up time for more meaningful work. AI also enhances accessibility for those who are blind by providing screen-reading capabilities, and it can support multitasking, such as safely accessing information while driving. Ultimately, AI reduces the burden of repetitive work, offering better work-life balance and creating new possibilities for people with disabilities.
AI isn’t here to take jobs, but rather to enhance them—just like computers did in their time. This is an exciting era for people with disabilities, as AI holds the potential to level the playing field by allowing them to work more efficiently, needing to only do 100% of what’s required rather than working twice as hard to get noticed. However, it’s crucial to develop AI responsibly, building trust with users. Embrace AI with curiosity, but also ask the right questions to improve it. Building a meaningful relationship with AI will take time, just like any lasting relationship.
What are you the most optimistic for the future?
I'm optimistic because when I was born with a disability, it was seen as my parents' problem. As I got older, it became my own responsibility. But now, we live in a world where accessibility is becoming everyone's responsibility. People, like yourself with this podcast, are getting curious and involved. We may not know what perfect accessibility looks like, but we all understand what "better" can be, and that’s what gives me hope. Let's keep improving, without letting the fear of not achieving perfection hold us back.